The Wealth Of Micronations

[Jason Steffke]

Quote: but can "buy" more land to enlarge the nation

AHHH!!! He's conjuring up the dead evil spirits of the UAS!!



To clarify, this kind of thing happened in the UAS. Gong Li, a state that didn't have much land, wanted more. When asking didn't work, they crashed the UAS's stock exchange by selling all of their stock. The government didn't have enough money to pay them and became bankrupt. They then offered to buy the land they wanted to with enough money to save the governmental treasury.



Needless to say, no one was too happy about the government being held hostage by these guys. I don't really remember what happend, but it wasn't too definite. They got some land... some stocks were considered unsold, and stuff like that. But it began the land race, in which New Jasonia was massing enough funds to buy all remaining land in the country (although they never did do it)



It was a mess...

Jason Steffke

Jas'Set Sel'Eth

Rolen ne sarem lumsom Tymaria!

[Kennendras]

Hmmm...doest sound good.  What if the cost was proportional to how much you already owned, so if you own more, the price is more per square mile or waterver.  Also, set a cap to how much you can own total.  Who was the UAS?  Was it a separate corporation?

Emperor Kennendras

Foreign Minister

Webmaster

The Realm of Tallandor




"Talk softly and carry a big stick"

"Facts are chains that bind and fetter truth, for a man can remake the world if he has no facts to cloud his mind"

[Jason Steffke]

The UAS was the Union of Apollo States, an old merger nation not unlike Tymaria. And like Tymaria, most of the citizens were loyal to their own states rather then the federal government, so this kind of thing could happen.



Your idea to increase the price/land buying ratio could help out, but it would be fairly tricky to figure out the formula and could probably be abused.

Jason Steffke

Jas'Set Sel'Eth

Rolen ne sarem lumsom Tymaria!

[Kennendras]

OK, i see the problem.  But the difference is that this wont be a loose confederacy of states, but a map with a council.  One state/micronation cant crash someone else's economy because they are not related, other than being on the same map.



Yes, the forumla could probably be manipulated and abused, as all forumlas tend to do.

Emperor Kennendras

Foreign Minister

Webmaster

The Realm of Tallandor




"Talk softly and carry a big stick"

"Facts are chains that bind and fetter truth, for a man can remake the world if he has no facts to cloud his mind"

[Trevon Andarosel]

Dirty tricks like the one of those Wong Li (sp?) guys can always be found, no matter what system you have. Still, I think the idea of increasing land prices is pretty good, since it prevents countries that do a little better in the beginning from becoming extremely powerful in a short time. Because if the prices are kept constant, then the larger an economy is the more money is available and the easier it is to buy new land.



The question is: if a country buys the land, of who does it buy the land from. Or in other words: who si the initial owner of the land? If it is some comittee, what is that comittee going to do with the money? Throw it in the garbage bin? Build a nice office/palace? Organize intermicronational events? Divide it among the comittee members?  



Trevon Andarosel.

The storyteller of Ex, Umbagollah


Ilotim ilo arelisin il parduvile arelis te arelisin
The truth is just too true to be true for everyone

[Ari Rahikkala]

The fundamental problem and wealth of micronationalism... We don't have any high committee or any other decisive power who could say how much stuff people get from doing things, how well their companies fare, how their tactics in war succeed... This is why virtual goods economies and .gifwars have failed: There's nobody who has the power to decide who wins and who loses. Compare micronationalism to some MMORPG, like Everquest. Everquest has centralization, Everquest has people who have the power to decide. In Everquest players can be kicked out by the people who have the power to decide. In Everquest the people who have the power to decide can throw any amount of monsters at a player if they want to. Micronationalism is different. Even if you and your enemy both stated how much forces they have in a war, there is nobody who can decide who actually wins ground and how much.



I can't think up any case of anyone doing the same what we are doing now... Creating a high decisive body for an RPG that does not have any such body yet, and still give it only limited power. This calls for some philosophical studying...

"It ain't over 'till the fat lady sinks."
--the Inquisition's witchcraft test

[Kennendras]

hmmm...when one problem is solved, four more arise.  Well, i have no idea how the money would be spent, or even who owns the land to begin with.  Thats for tommorow's math class :-)

Emperor Kennendras

Foreign Minister

Webmaster

The Realm of Tallandor




"Talk softly and carry a big stick"

"Facts are chains that bind and fetter truth, for a man can remake the world if he has no facts to cloud his mind"

[Trevon Andarosel]

Although it is often mentioned implictly, it's good that Ari mentions it explicitly: a supervising committee is absolutely necessary to run a virtual goods economy.



This committee, probably consisting of representatives of most particpating economies must have the power to solve conflicts (a bit like the security council of the UN), whereas all day-to-day economic activities can be handled by rules. Obviously conflicts will arise since rules can only deal with a very limited part of reality.



That's the most standard model of doing such things.



Trevon Andarosel

The storyteller of Ex, Umbagollah


Ilotim ilo arelisin il parduvile arelis te arelisin
The truth is just too true to be true for everyone

[William Howard]

Well Baracão's is the only micronational economy I've ever worked with so this stuff is all kind of new to me.



Basically, while needing a detailed simulation, we need a simple one. The thought of pages of complex rules and page long equations is hardly going to inspire people to get involved.



Now let me talk to you for a second about our economy.

Quote: Standing population of 100,000 plus 10,000 (as opposed to 1000) for each citizen = 160,000.



Farm = food for 1000 people for 1 month (so food for 4000 people a week).



Therefore government needs 40 farms to feed population of 160,000 each week.



If government guarantees $50,000 for 1 food unit (food produced by 1 farm in one month) for private farms, then we assume government is also guaranteed $50,000 by selling to population from its own farms.



So government receives $2,000,000 (2 million) per month from farming.



Farm requires 100 workers each – so 4000 workers used, paid $250 per month = $1,000,000 (1 million).







Government starts with 1000 soldiers.



Ammunition factory produces enough ammo each week for 100 soldiers, enough for a month (So produces enough for 1000 each week).



So government needs 1 ammo factory.



50 workers at $250 each = $12,500.





Government starts with



10 tanks

10 trucks

2 jets

2 bombers

2 air transports

2 cruisers

2 transport ships

10 Patrol boats

2 Submarines



Trucks: 1 fuel unit for 10 trucks each month

Tanks: 1 fuel unit for 10 tanks each month

Jets: 1 fuel unit for 2 jets each month

Bomber/ transports: 1 fuel unit for 2 Bombers or 2 transports

Submarine: 1 fuel unit for 1 sub

Patrol boat: 1 fuel unit for 10 boats

Cruiser ships/transports: 1 fuel unit for 1 cruiser/ transport



So government needs 12 fuel units per month.

Oil refinery produces 1000 gallons (1 fuel unit per week). Government needs 3 per week so requires 3 oil refineries. 100 workers per refinery.



300 workers at $250 = $75000.







Government workers to receive $1000 per month.



6 at $1000 per month = $6000.





Taxes = 10% of income.



Government employs 4350 at $250 per month = $1,087,500



Government employs 6 at $1000 per month = $6000



For each government official (citizens actually working for government – us), add 100 other government workers, paid at $250 per month.



600 = $150,000



Wages = $1,243,500



10% = $124,350 (tax)



Total = $1,119,150





Social Services



Public transport - $10,000 per month – serves 20,000 people

Education – $100,000 per month – serves 10,000 people

Health - $100,000 per month – serves 10,000 people

Welfare - $50,000 per month - serves 1000 people



10% of population = children in full time education.

5% of population claiming welfare at any one time.



Government may not provide all services, depends upon policy. Assuming government is to provide for all people…







160,000 people.



Public transport – $80,000



Education – 16,000 people = $160,000



Health - $1,600,000



Welfare – 8000 people = $400,000



Total Social Services cost = $2,240,000





Military



Government starts with 1000 soldiers



Each soldier costs



$100 wages

$150 upkeep



Total of $250 per month



Current cost of military = $250,000







Private business

At the start of the nation there will be no private business existing, though that could change. Therefore right now these are the only factors to be taken into account. It can be assumed that there will always be the demand for the goods produced in factories from private owners as well as the government. Therefore we can take the following; (adjustments in green)



-        $10 000 for a farm: Produces food for 1000 people for a month each week, Requires 100 workers to operate (Months produce sells at $50,000, Wages cost $25,000)



-        $10 000 for a luxury goods factory: Produces 1000 luxury goods (televisions, radios etc.) a week, Requires 100 workers to operate (Months produce sells at $50,000, Wages cost $25,000)



-        $50 000 for an Ammunition factory: produces ammo each week for 100 soldiers (enough ammo for one month). requires 50 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $50,000, Wages cost $12,500 )



-        $50 000 for an Oil refinery: produces 1000 gallons of fuel a week. requires 100 workers to operate (see fuel chart) (Months produce sells at $50,000, Wages cost $25,000)



-        $50 000 for a weapons factory: produces 100 AK-47s a week

requires 50 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $25,000, Wages cost $12,500)



-        $100 000 for a tank factory: produces 10 tanks a week. requires 500 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $250,000, Wages cost $125,000)



-        $200 000 for a jet factory: produces 2 jets a week requires 1000 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $500,000, Wages cost $250,000)



-        $200 000 for a car factory: produces 100 cars a week requires 1000 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $500,000, Wages cost $250,000)



-        $25 000 for a truck factory: produces 10 trucks a week requires 500 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $250,000, Wages cost $125,000)



-        $250 000 for a bomber/air cargo plane factory: produces 2 bombers or air Transports a week and requires 1000 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $500,000, Wages cost $250,000)



-        $250 000 for a shipyard: produces 10 patrol boats, or 1 cruiser or 1 transport ship or 1 diesel submarine each week. Requires 1000 workers to operate. (Months produce sells at $500,000, Wages cost $250,000)



The following also applies to businesses:



10% of profit goes to government as tax.



25% of total income must be paid for upkeep of machinery, bills etc.



50% of total income goes to wages.



(Taxes and wages can change)



Therefore the owner receives 15% of total income in profit.



So for example if somebody owned a Shipyard, they would receive $75,000 per month. The other $425,000 would be outgoings.



Of that $75,000 per month, the government takes another 10% tax, as it is an income, leaving the owner with $67,500 a month.



At the beginning of the simulation there will be no private businesses owned , only government (wages, profits and outgoings rules still apply).

Government owns further 10 oil refineries (other than 3 it uses to fuel own vehicles), fuel from which is sold to private users. Workers here are paid 10% less but pay no tax.



1000 workers = $225,000



Income from sales = $500,000 – Minus wages = $275,000



Minus other charges (25%), total income = $206,250



Government owns 50 luxury goods factories, produce from which is sold to private users. Workers are paid 10% less but pay no tax.



5000 workers = $1,125,000



Income from sales = $2,500,000 – Minus wages = $1,375,000



Minus other charges (25%), total income = $1,031,250



Government owns 4 car factories, produce from which is sold to private users. Workers are paid 10% less but pay no tax.



2000 workers = $450,000



Income from sales = $1,000,000 – Minus wages = $550,000



Minus other charges (25%), total income = $495,000





Totals



Income:



Farms: $2,000,000

Oil: $206,250

Luxuries: $1,031,250

Cars: $495,000



Total: $3,732,500



Outgoings:



Military: $250,000

Social Services: $2,240,000

Wages: $1,119,150



Total: $3,609,150



Government income: $123,350 per month or $1,480,200 per year.



Each citizen starts with $10,000.



Government starts with $100,000



All money is held in the national bank, which exists merely to store this money and does nothing with it.



All incomes, taxes, wages and value of produce may vary in the future.



This is only a building block, on which to start our economy.



In the words of Comrade Cromien, ‘The possibilities are endless’

That is basically the foundation of our simulation (excuse any errors in it, its far from perfect). Now as you can see there is no set amount of money in circulation but the government can't just print money either. It must earn it.



We make money from selling to the simulated population and we use that money to pay real citizens. They then do with that money as they please (but also have bills and taxes to pay). If they have enough money they can purchase a business which makes more profit for them.



This system has been engineered to be a vital part of our nation. An obvious example of this is the milita being unable to expand and purchase vehicles without money from the government. As the government has to carefully manage it's money this become more realistic as, like in real life, we have to manage a military budget rather than just saying 'I've got a million men'.



This economy only puts demands on the economic minister, and that is only doing a few sums at the end of the week. There are no equations. Now you might say this isn't realistic because, for example, in real life the harvest might fail and the farms would be in crisis. Well this is micronations, not real life, they are never going to be the same.



I am sure that a better system could be developed but our's has one important advantage, it works.

 

William Howard

Chairman

Republic of Baracão

"We have no alternative. We must continue dreaming, with the hope that the better world will become a reality -- as it will, if we keep struggling. Humanity should never renounce its dreams, its utopias. Struggling for utopia means, in part, building it"

[Trevon Andarosel]

To summarize your system without focusing on the numbers:



you suggest to add virtual citizens to the virtual goods economy?



Sounds reasonable. I think it can be implemented quite easily by considering virtualizens also as a "resource", which is divided over the micronational map. (although you can argue about the ethics of this approach  )

You can make agreements on how many people are necessary for what (like you already did in Baracao), etc.



Trevon.

The storyteller of Ex, Umbagollah


Ilotim ilo arelisin il parduvile arelis te arelisin
The truth is just too true to be true for everyone

[Sir Iain de Vembria]

That would seem a good way to manage 'virtual citizens'.

Sir Iain
Knight-Councillor of The Barony of Treesia & Fabon,

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